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#1 Arcticblast

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:02 PM

Yeah, this team is built around Camerupt. Don't like it? Don't read any further. In fact, this team wouldn't exist without Camerupt. I was looking for one slightly better than what I had already for PWT and ended up getting a Quiet 15/31/31/31/31/15 Numel, and at that point I figured I'd skip the PWT and go all out. I did a little research (I already have a decent amount of doubles knowledge from 6v6, although the transition is proving a little rockier than I'd hoped), EV'd a terrible Dusknoir, and downloaded a few Pokemon from PokeCheck and I had my team. It did really well in the first battle and I did pretty well against some opponents, but other times,,, it just fell apart. Whatever, on to the team. Dusknoir @ Mental Herb Trait: Pressure EVs: 248 HP / 64 Atk / 196 SDef Brave Nature IVs: 12 HP / 7 Spd - Trick Room - Will-O-Wisp - Shadow Punch - Earthquake Dusknoir sets up Trick Room, deals some damage, maybe spreads burns, then dies. I hate this spread though, it's absolutely terrible and I'm looking to get a Sassy Dusknoir asap. I had this Dusknoir from an earlier breed, and when I decided to EV train it I thought "Hey, Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor hits hard, let's try to tank it" and I learned I would end up wasting so many EVs it's crazy. So in other words, don't comment on the spread, I'm working on it. On another note though, Mental Herb is really fun on Dusknoir - it essentially guarantees that I'll get TR up (unless the opponent has... Kangaskhan?) and considering Dusknoir's bulk it hasn't failed once when I play it right. Landorus-Therian (M) @ Lum Berry Trait: Intimidate EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Earthquake - Stone Edge - U-turn - Protect This thing has been doing nothing important for the team. Intimidate is great, STAB EQ is great, U-Turn is surprisingly useful, Lando-T is just... ugh. I'm thinking that it's just exacerbating my weaknesses to Lati@s and Rain in general, considering the makeup of my team. The 252 Jolly hasn't been awful though, even in Trick Room, as it's nice to know I'll outspeed certain threats in a pinch. Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry Trait: Levitate Level: 50 EVs: 212 HP / 108 Def / 28 SAtk / 156 SDef / 4 Spd Calm Nature - Psyshock - Trick Room - Skill Swap - Helping Hand This is lucariojr's spread. Cresselia is... well, Cresselia. There isn't much to say other than it doesn't die. Ever. Skill Swap is fun, Helping Hand is nice for a boost in a pinch, and Psyshock smacks Fighting-types. It's just a fun Pokemon to use. I've had times where I really miss Icy Wind, and I probably could have afforded to drop Helping Hand instead... darn. We all know how Cresselia works, so moving on... Gastrodon @ Ground Gem Trait: Storm Drain EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Muddy Water - Ice Beam - Earth Power - Recover This guy. THIS GUY. I've ran Gastrodon in both singles and doubles before, but I never knew just how much weight this little slug could actually pull. It might sound weird for something with only base 92 Special Attack, but Gastrodon is just a wrecking ball. Whether it's spamming Muddy Water alongside Camerupt, picking off certain Dragons with Ice Beam, or murdering pretty much everything else with Earth Power, Gastrodon has been doing an incredible job. I'm thinking of switching Recover for Protect - sure it's nice to have Recover, but I haven't used it much and have really missed Protect on occasion. Thoughts? Tyranitar @ Chople Berry Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Brave Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Crunch - Rock Slide - Low Kick - Protect I originally thought that Tyranitar was going to be necessary if I wanted to pull off a Camerupt sweep, but to be honest, Camerupt is mostly a liability against Rain, making Tyranitar's role a bit superfluous. It hasn't really done a ton for the team, either, outside of tanking a couple stray attacks and being a meatshield. I'm not really sure what I'd use over Tyranitar though, and Sand Stream is certainly useful for weakening Politoed's Surf. Camerupt @ Fire Gem Trait: Solid Rock EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk Quiet Nature IVs: 15 Atk / 15 Spd - Eruption - Earth Power - Heat Wave - Protect And now we get to the star of the show. Camerupt is a boss. Fire Gem boosted Eruption is absolutely a nuke, and in case I take a hit I can fall back on Heat Wave. (HP Dark sucks, but I'd probably use Heat Wave > HP Ice anyway) Honestly, Camerupt is actually working - I've found that a lot of teams don't have a ton of Fire resists, and the ones that do just don't have to face Camerupt :P Earth Power hits opposing Rock- and Fire-types and is a backup STAB attack. Okay, so what threatens this team? It's not so much of an issue with Draco Meteor, it's that I don't really have a way to hit Latios back most of the time. Even when I don't pick Camerupt, this team hates Rain with a passion. Big reason I'm thinking Hitmontop > Landorus-T. Rotom-C in particular is awful to take out, since that Leaf Storm is so powerful and I have no resists. Rotom-W could be tricky too, since most of my team can't touch it at the moment... Oh, and before I forget, anything involving multiple Dragons. Ugh. Hate facing that. I guess that's it for now. Help?

Edited by Arcticblast, 01 August 2013 - 09:29 PM.


#2 Gaff

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:27 PM

Interesting choice, Noir over clops, but I see that you account for it in EVs so that's fine. Good of you to say that you're looking for new spreads and sets, I don't have any atm but I'm sure someone does. Now onto the Ttar, if you want to use some other poke over him/her, a dragon could help. Kingdra could take advantage of your weakness to rain and dragon and repel both (DAT SWIFT SWIM BOOST, MAAAAN). Although if you feel that Gastrodon is your rain counter, a Hydreigon might fit the bill nicely. Overall, I dislike TR teams because of all the weak points (imo) but since you say it works for you, all the more power. ^-^
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#3 The Knights of Wario Land

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:38 PM

I think I can say this confidently that Dusknoir really isn't that good. You're far better off using Dusclops, even though it's Taunt weak. The main reason why I'm harping on Dusknoir so much is because a) Intimidate is everywhere, B) you already have a great damage-dealer to Cresselia in the form of Tyranitar, and c) non-STAB Earthquake is almost always pathetic. Even if you gave that Dusknoir max Attack, it still wouldn't be hitting Tyranitar or Terrakion that hard with Earthquake, for example. If you really want to use that Mental Herb, I suggest switching Dusknoir for Cofagrigus: it's got better physical bulk, a better ability, and can use Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split efficiently. 

 

The other pressing issue I have with this team is Camerupt: Eruption Heatran is MILES better than Camerupt. Eruption Heatran hits harder, has much better typing (which in turn gives it a much better time against Latios), and much higher bulk. You can also use Skill Swap much more efficiently with Heatran for those reasons, so I say that you should most definitely get rid of Camerupt. 


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#4 Arcticblast

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:00 PM

I've used TR Heatran in 6v6 and I can attest to how much it wrecks there, so at least part of it carries over to doing well in VGC...   Anyway, I prefer Camerupt partly because its Earth Power can actually take out certain resists more effectively than Heatran's can.  For example, 252/0 Tyranitar can't be 2HKOd by Gastrodon Muddy Water plus Heatran Earth Power, but replace Heatran with Camerupt and you have a solid chance to KO. 252 SpA Gastrodon Muddy Water vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 66-78 (31.88 - 37.68%) 252+ SpA Camerupt Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 98-116 (47.34 - 56.03%) 252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 76-90 (36.71 - 43.47%) Solid Rock is also pretty nifty, allowing it to take assorted Earthquakes better than Heatran (with my Camerupt, it takes them about as well as ShucaTran, but Camerupt is free to run a different item). While Dusknoir has pulled its weight, I can definitely agree that it would be better to replace it. I really don't want to use Dusclops since it gets walked over even more easily than Dusknoir does, although Cofagrigus sounds neat too. I was actually thinking of changing it to a Slowking earlier, although I'm not sure if Slowking is particularly viable in VGC.

#5 tlyee61

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:57 PM

Hi, EV Doctor here to improve your spreads.

 

Be sure to make all the Speed IVs 0 for TR use!

 

Dusknoir: use Eviolite Dusclops, it has vastly superior bulk. 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def will work. Sadly, it doesn't have Levitate. If you really want the super bulkiness and Levitate, try eviolite Misdreavus like Enosh did. 

 

Gastrodon: try the offensive spread in the Gastrodon for Dummies article

 

Landorus: try Scarf if you want speed. You can make it Adamant 228 Speed to creep Max Speed Thundy-i and still be really strong. 


Edited by tlyee61, 31 July 2013 - 06:58 PM.

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#6 Gaff

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:41 AM

Heeey, EV intern/nurse here to suggest a few things. 0 Speed IVs on a TR team is good but make sure at least someone is speedy, just in case TR doesn't get set up. I saw a lack of priority moves on your team which can help in/out of TR. 

Eviolite misdreavus would make an interesting replacement for Dusknoir.

Edit: Sorry, I was thinking of Icy wind on Cress. slipped my mind there


Edited by Gaff, 01 August 2013 - 07:03 AM.

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#7 araluen7

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:01 AM

Lets put a move on Pokémon that don't even learn the move.
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#8 Arcticblast

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:25 PM

Could I get some more rates related to the problems the team faces as a whole? Right now, the only one who's done that is Gaff. I appreciate everyone's input, but what most people have suggested is all fine tuning, and while of course it's good I need more direct solutions to the threats my team has trouble with. Actually, a Follow Me Jirachi would fix a bunch of them, but it's not allowed :,( Oh yeah - updating the threat list and considering Hitmontop > Lando-T and Hydreigon > Ttar, although I need some set advice on the latter.

Edited by Arcticblast, 01 August 2013 - 09:26 PM.


#9 tlyee61

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 10:57 PM

Hi, it looks like your team also has a slight problem if TR isn't set up. Most of your mons besides Lando-T are pretty slow. I would consider adding a slightly faster 'mon. Maybe something interesting like Choice Scarfed Kingdra > Gastrodon could counter Latios with a faster DM and even race around in the rain.


[14:17] deaglebeagle: why would I be racist against myself?
[14:17] deaglebeagle: im not a wigger
[14:18] #Firestorm: my advice to you is to stop talking
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[14:18] #Firestorm: when all this blows up on twitter



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