Only Pokémon from the Kalos Pokédex to be Usable in VGC ’14 Winter Regionals?
We’ve recently learned that there is a very high possibility that the ruleset for the upcoming set of Regional Championships will only allow Pokémon attainable in the Kalos Pokédex. This may sound familiar to those of you who played in 2011 where only Pokémon in the Unova Pokédex were allowed in order to promote the recently released Pokémon Black Version and Pokémon White Version.
Unlike the 2011 ruleset however, a Kalos-only tournament with Pokémon X and Y would have some very important differences. Most obviously, the Kalos Pokédex includes Pokémon from many different generations rather than just the ones introduced in Kalos. Though this allows for more teambuilding options, it may create a harder to understand ruleset for newer players. To add to the confusion, many Pokémon that can be caught in Kiloude City’s Friend Safari are not actually a part of the Kalos Pokédex even though they can be caught in Pokémon X & Y, which would ban them from use.
It’s important to note that there is no way to practice a Kalos-only ruleset in the game at the moment. The ladder allows all Pokémon but certain legendary Pokémon, and one of the single most used Pokémon is currently Togekiss, which would not be allowed come January if this ruleset turns out to be the one we play under. To give you an idea of what wouldn’t be allowed, we have a list of some of the more metagame-relevant Pokémon not in the Kalos Pokédex below:
- Arcanine
- Bronzong
- Chansey
- Cresselia
- Dusclops
- Electabuzz
- Empoleon
- Excadrill
- Gastrodon
- Grotle
- Heatran
- Hitmontop
- Infernape
- Jellicent
- Landorus
- Latias
- Latios
- Magmar
- Metagross
- Misdreavus
- Musharna
- Ninetales
- Porygon2
- Porygon-Z
- Raikou
- Registeel
- Stoutland
- Suicune
- Swampert
- Terrakion
- Thundurus
- Togekiss
- Tornadus
- Virizion
- Volcarona
About the Author
Firestorm is one of the co-founders of Nugget Bridge and the Community Manager for eSports Tournament Platform Battlefy. He has been playing Pokémon since 1999, competitively since 2007, and attending tournaments since 2010. He lives in Vancouver, Canada with a degree in Interactive Art & Technology + Communications. You can follow him on Twitter at @rushanshekar.
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Breloom also would not be allowed.
Serebii confirmed.
But really, the issue I have with this is just how arbitrary it is. It makes for a really confusing ruleset when there’s Pokemon you can obtain in-game but aren’t in the dex. Things like Togekiss, HItmontop, and Tangela are easily obtained in Kalos but aren’t a part of the Kalos dex is sure to cause a lot of confusion.
This also opens up another can of worms in Hidden Abilities. If Pokemon obtained from the Friend Safari are not allowed to be used because they aren’t a part of the Kalos dex, are Hidden Abilities found in the Friend Safari eligible?
A format where there is no thundurus?
i’ll repeat something important scott said but in bold since sometimes people don’t read his posts
we do not have an official rule document, and since we do not actually have official rules yet, it’d be a good idea not to act like Kalosdex only is an official rule
we do not have an official rule document, and since we do not actually have official rules yet, it’d be a good idea not to act like Kalosdex only is an official rule
so nobody flip any tables completely, there is still room for change. whats important is that we get our concerns and opinions out there. personally i think kalosdex would be a little ridiculous (even though i was guessing earlier that this would be the ruleset whether i liked the idea or not). whats the point of promoting pokemon bank when the pokemon we could bring over at that point wouldn’t even be relevant for competition? its especially disappointing to know that we wouldn’t be able to use the super cool and amazing safari exclusive pokemon (exclusive in that right now certain mons we can catch there are only available that way). i could see it getting a little confusing for younger players as well, half of which still try to bring mascot legendaries to tournaments. the line isn’t defined enough especially when we only have 70 new mons mixed in with some familiar friends from past generations, some of which are not useful at all.
scott also already talked about this but its a huge concern of mine as well since i don’t really play on simulators at all: we have no way to practice the format. there is no way for us to practice with kalosdex only, and that seems a little backwards when pokemon is trying to move us away from simulator play with the wonderful update to the wifi disconnect system. i played primarily on gbu last gen when i needed to practice and i’m not about to become sim exclusive so i can battle the same five teams over and over again just because of a silly format. maybe it seemed like a good idea because of how 2011 worked but it really wouldnt be the same at all.
i can get a togekiss without using other generations but i can’t use it! how is this supposed to even work
I personally find this rule-set baffling for a number of reasons.
As mentioned in the article, there is no real way to practice this in game at the moment. They have done Wifi tournaments in the past with special rules, but there is no way that is sufficient for the player base. A player base that will have a new rule set with no way to practice is just absurd, why would they even consider driving players to simulators. I am a fan of having a consistent platform that you can just jump on and practice at any time. Special ladders and tournaments does not help the player base at all.
The confusion that begins to arise with the release of Pokemon Bank and the in-game Friend Safari. Why would you release a product with features such as Pokemon Bank or have an in-game feature like Friend Safari but not utilize either? The features in the Friend Safari are almost geared towards competitive players who need those 31 IVs on their Pokemon. Other questions begin to arise, like Scott said, would tutors and things passed from Bank be legal for the Pokemon that are available in a Kalos Dex? It is just an entirely unnecessary restriction in a game filled with openness right now.
While the Kalos Dex is much more diverse than the Unova Dex, VGC 2011 had a major backlash because of how centered it became on a choice group of Pokemon. Why force this down players throats again. The freedom to use all 700 or so Pokemon as opposed to just 450 from the Kalos Dex (minus Legends).
This is just a mess of confusion and filled with arbitrary restrictions that I don’t think are conducive to good metagame or happy player base, especially with the lack of available in game practice. The glut of available Pokemon from Friend Safari just adds on to a messy proposition from this Kalos only rule set.
I really dislike how convoluted this would make the ruleset more than anything. I’m on the camp that thinks a consistent ruleset is the healthiest thing for the game. We should have an expectation of what the rules will be before they’re even announced. I was really hoping 2011 would be the final year we were waiting to find out what sort of gimmick would play a part in the format. I think it cheapens the game.
In any case, in 2012 I was helping out at my local Regional by fixing people’s Battle Box issues. I remember one of them was a kid who wanted Reshiram on her team and I had to explain to her she couldn’t. Not too hard considering she understands how incredibly powerful it is as a cover legendary. Not so easy will be explaining to an eight year old why they can’t use the Togepi he or she trained up into a Togekiss.
Dusclooooppppppsssssssss RIP
I’m actually really ok with this format and I think it’ll be really cool to try out some new pokemon and combo’s before we open up the national dex for VGC’15 (assuming this are the real rules) But I will also really miss Metagross.
Please no Kalos only. It would mean we lose this wonderful beast External.
Fun fact: every pokemon that was banned from smogon ou is illegal under an x & y moveset. How am I supposed to enjoy a vgc metagame where I don’t even get to make fun of singles players for arbitrary banlists? I’m not worried about having to adapt or anything, but I think this ruleset turns new players off from the game. It’s so easy to be intimidated by the list of not usable pokemon, who wants to have to remember what pokemon aren’t in the kalos dex especially when some are attainable in the kalos region but aren’t in the kalos dex? However, one thing I think most people are forgetting is, what would turn you off more from the meta: having to learn a complicated ban list, or not being able to actually play the format until 3 weeks before regionals, ensuring that the players that do well are those that have quick and easy access to online simulators? I don’t think that this is the most tactful option they could have done, but it’s not as bad as everyone’s making it out to be imo.
I mean hell you can even use trickband gallade in this format, what exactly is there to complain about?
If this turns out to be true, then the Gastrodon debate is settled.
No one, no matter how dumb they may be, will use Gastrodon again.
Like balloons tend to do, this one floated over to Philly towards the tail end of the Regional. I’ll say here the same thing I said to anyone who asked me about it at Philly: I think this would be an incredibly dumb decision that only serves to alienate the vast majority of the playerbase. Kalos Dex is an entirely new Pokedex that mixes and matches from across the generations and essentially imposes a(n arbitrary) banlist on the meta. The only parallel is to VGC ’11 which used only the new Unova mons, but that banlist could be explained by: “Only new Pokemon are allowed except cover and event legendaries.” This one you have to go through “It’s the mons in the Plains, Coastal and Mountain Kalos Dexes but nothing you get in Friend Safari or from previous games unless it’s also in the Plains, Coastal or Mountain Kalos Dexes. Also, you can’t use Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde or Mewtwo.” One of these is easier to understand than the other.
Let’s take a look at the last meta that had confusion issues: the first Regional in the 2013 season. Remember, this is the Regional before we switched over to Black and White 2. It is also infamous for having the most disqualifications in Regionals because of the confusion about move tutors, etc in BW2. Let’s assume everyone understands the mons restriction of Kalos Dex. With the release of Pokemon Bank, we throw back into the mix past tutor moves and breeding chains for Pokemon in the Kalos Dex. Would those be banned because they come from outside X and Y like BW2 tutors were for the first Regional of the 2013 season? If so, expect just as many disqualifications as before and just as much confusion in your player base.
Scott already highlighted how important having a ladder to battle on is, so I don’t want to rehash it except to say that I agree it’s actually the biggest issue. I think a lot of people I’ve spoken to who are in favor of Kalos Dex just don’t want to play against Cresselia and Thundurus. I get it. We’ve been playing a version of this meta for two years now, but that’s what the new mechanics and new mons introduced in X/Y are for. This is our balance patch. We don’t need to go overboard on it. Play around with the Megas and some of the new tools Pokemon get and see if you don’t think it’s refreshing enough.
Would have really preferred “anything obtainable in X and Y is fair game” to this, as this proposal just makes it really confusing for newer / younger players. That’s the most looming issue right now if this format were to be implemented. Not sure what they plan to do in order to better cope with situations like Firestorm mentioned, as they’ve recently been doing a lot to appeal to the next generation of players while this format would go against that plan.
Landorus-T, Cresselia and Thundurus NOT ALLOWED??? SIGN ME UP
Now that Gamefreak has the ability to patch Pokemon games, it’s possible they could add an entirely new section of the Pokedex beyond the three that exist right now just to account for those in the Friend Safari. It’s not very likely, but it would certainly make the rule set a lot less arbitrary.
Friend Safari + Kalos Pokedex would be make bit more sense and less arbitrary. If they are not allowed to use pokemon from Friend Safari such as Volcarona, they still use them.
“Landorus-T, Cresselia and Thundurus NOT ALLOWED??? SIGN ME UP”
While this may or may not be sarcastic I personally do not like the mindset of top x pokemon aren’t allowed? where do i sign up?
Mainly because these are the same people who complain about a “stale” metagame, but when they play the metagame for a couple of months they end up calling the new metagame stale with only X amount of mons being used. This happened in 2010, 2011, and there are many who call 2012-13 stale which basically allowed everything not uber or event mon. In a few months even kalos dex will have a top x established, and the same people that claimed other metagames were getting stale will do the same. This is really the only point I wwanted to get at because everyone in this thread already explained why this isn’t that great in detail.
That’s basically why I wouldn’t want to ban Pokemon the way Smogon does even if we could — there’s always the next Cresselia or Thundurus. Something is always going to be the best and you’re always going to be sick of fighting it and think it isn’t fun to play against.
I’d actually be really down for a change such as this. So long as the rules are spelled out clearly, then I’m not going to have a problem with it. It seems kinda exciting, actually.
Doesn’t it make sense that any and every metagame can get stale after a while? I don’t like this possible new format because it excludes past highly used ‘mons, but because by excluding those ‘mons, there are some new and exciting strategies and pokemon that can be employed more viably. And yes, once these ar eno longer new and exciting, it too will become stale. There’s always room for some innovation as we’ve seen at the end of this past format, but now as much as with a whole new format.
I actually agree with Kingofmars that the reasoning of this possible new format makes sense in that since pokebank won’t be up until 3 weeks before winter regionals it should be excluded. This line of thought is seen by how we didn’t play X&Y at Fall regionals. As for banning ingame pokemon like friend safari pokemon, that will cause some confusion and I can’t say I agree with it.
Most of what I see here is people complaining about what they don’t like about the proposed meta. Instead of saying what I don’t like, I’ll say what I will like:
Are the last metagame’s overused titans temporarily banned? check.
Are there a variety of new pokemon, moves, and ablities to play with and discover combos with? check.
Will changes to the type chart affect how new and old pokemon are used? check.
The fact that so many of the old powerhouses are banned is a good thing imho. Fairy type would be instantly defeated by Heatran, since he both double resists it and hits back with STAB SE moves. Considering the huge shift to Eruptran that occurred in the last couple months, it could only have been prevented one way: ban hammer. Certainly, some of the inveterate “goodstuffs” addicts will be riled up, but the opportunists who seek to find the next breakout strategy have every reason to rejoice. We could easily complain about the lack of certain pseudo-legendaries from 5th Gen, even the underused ones like Tornadus-T, or the missing Fossils, but with well over half the pokemon still accounted for, we might as well view the glass as “half-full.”
Also, who wouldn’t be happy about a generation in which the starters might actually have a chance to shine?
NOT MY PERT
I’m pretty indifferent to this. I’m still new and in that way, a fresh ruleset sounds ok I guess. I’m fine with this as long as it is a “first year of new gen”-thing only.
While I agree with you, I didn’t necessarily mean that I think the metagame is stale. I just personally think that those mons (especially Lando-T) have changed the metagame in a direction that I don’t like. But that’s because I complain and don’t do anything to counter them..
At least these points are true either way. Not to mention the changes to mechanics.
But why are people acting like Kalosdex only is so likely if there hasn’t been an official announcement that makes it so, anyway? Does anything make Kalos only particularly likely that isn’t just speculation?
I think it’s an interesting change in terms of what we’ll expect to see played. Mainly excited because a lot of people here seemed to just copy what was used overseas to varying success.
Though it is a (very amusing) missed opportunity to market the PokeBank, for sure.
Maybe the practice would be done via the “Special” ruleset of the GBU. Though I was pretty sure those change every season. It’s really important that people have the opportunity to practice in-game, rather than using buggy simulators.
I’m not sure on Kalos dex + Friend Safari being a thing, usually the documents describe what is allowed by using Pokedex numbers. It’ll be simple verbally, but not so much in that documentation. Seems to be confusing either way, even from helping with local tournaments that ran stuff like VGC11 + BW2 tutors, people didn’t seem to understand it well even though we tried our best to describe what was allowed.
It would be nonsensical if past move tutors were banned though, as well as FS abilities.
The other thing I am curious about is if Mega Evolutions will be allowed.
there is not a lot of pokemon in the kalos generation which makes it kinda easy to make a team out of all the choices. only problem: we only have 2.5 months until regionals with those new sets of rules coming soon. there is a possibility it can be anyones game since we will be seeing a lot of diversity into team building. as usual they always dont add the move tutors (besides the ones with the pledges and strong moves etc.) yet until they make a sequal of X and Y; which is why egg moves were really important in 2011 and now we have to do it again in 2014.
the only exception they should have is a limit of one mega pokemon per team.
The more extensive posts earlier in this thread pretty much cover my thoughts.
It’s really not too hard for us to check if a Pokémon has a Kalos Pokédex number online, but in-game it isn’t as straight-forward to see and not easy to explain to youngsters.
The most important thing by far is that if we have a restricted format – we need to be able to practise this format on an exclusive ladder in-game, which we can’t now.
I expected that the upcoming ruleset would be something like this. I honestly am indifferent about the matter; either way there will be many changes to what will be used in during the 2014 season. While I would like to use some old favorites not included in the Kalos dex, I’m definitely not going to be complaining about not having to deal with Thundurus-I or Landorus-T. However, I do think this type of ruleset may cause a bit of confusion with more casual players and may deter them from competing. Nevertheless I don’t mind if the ruleset is indeed Kalos only; it’ll just mean I won’t get tired of a 6th gen national dex ruleset until like 2016.
The only thing that really matters, coming from someone who prefers gbu > sim, is if they do make the ruleset Kalos Dex only is that they clearly define the rules by patching (which can be done see 1.1) in a GBU ladder where people can practice. That would eliminate the need for simulators and make the rules easier to explain, “you can only use mons/moves/whatever in the Kalos wifi ladder.”