Only Pokémon from the Kalos Pokédex to be Usable in VGC ’14 Winter Regionals?
We’ve recently learned that there is a very high possibility that the ruleset for the upcoming set of Regional Championships will only allow Pokémon attainable in the Kalos Pokédex. This may sound familiar to those of you who played in 2011 where only Pokémon in the Unova Pokédex were allowed in order to promote the recently released Pokémon Black Version and Pokémon White Version.
Unlike the 2011 ruleset however, a Kalos-only tournament with Pokémon X and Y would have some very important differences. Most obviously, the Kalos Pokédex includes Pokémon from many different generations rather than just the ones introduced in Kalos. Though this allows for more teambuilding options, it may create a harder to understand ruleset for newer players. To add to the confusion, many Pokémon that can be caught in Kiloude City’s Friend Safari are not actually a part of the Kalos Pokédex even though they can be caught in Pokémon X & Y, which would ban them from use.
It’s important to note that there is no way to practice a Kalos-only ruleset in the game at the moment. The ladder allows all Pokémon but certain legendary Pokémon, and one of the single most used Pokémon is currently Togekiss, which would not be allowed come January if this ruleset turns out to be the one we play under. To give you an idea of what wouldn’t be allowed, we have a list of some of the more metagame-relevant Pokémon not in the Kalos Pokédex below:
- Arcanine
- Bronzong
- Chansey
- Cresselia
- Dusclops
- Electabuzz
- Empoleon
- Excadrill
- Gastrodon
- Grotle
- Heatran
- Hitmontop
- Infernape
- Jellicent
- Landorus
- Latias
- Latios
- Magmar
- Metagross
- Misdreavus
- Musharna
- Ninetales
- Porygon2
- Porygon-Z
- Raikou
- Registeel
- Stoutland
- Suicune
- Swampert
- Terrakion
- Thundurus
- Togekiss
- Tornadus
- Virizion
- Volcarona
About the Author
Firestorm is one of the co-founders of Nugget Bridge and the Community Manager for eSports Tournament Platform Battlefy. He has been playing Pokémon since 1999, competitively since 2007, and attending tournaments since 2010. He lives in Vancouver, Canada with a degree in Interactive Art & Technology + Communications. You can follow him on Twitter at @rushanshekar.
Related Posts
Nugget Bridge Update →
GS Cup Announced as Pokémon’s 2016 Ruleset →
2016 Pokémon World Championships Date & Location Surfaces →
Ok, while everyone else is busy complaining, I’m gonna take a different approach. Here are the reasons why Kalosdex is ok with me:
/unpopular opinions
The one thing in vgc 11 was that there were so many speed ties. Everyone used terrakion, hydreigon, thundurus, tornadus, whimsicott, etc. There were a select few that were competitively viable that gen. This gen, we have many pseudo legends, and a lot more to choose from. Mega mons, walls, annoying sets of keys which hax everything it touches, etc. Bring on the kalos only dex
Battle Spot allows for so-called “Special Battles” to be fought out on a rated ladder which is nothing else than a ladder with variable ruleset. It even says so in-game and I think it can be found somewhere on the GL website, too. So I guess that argument falls flat.
The arbitrarity still stands but I don’t see too many problems with that. IF TPCi decides it is Kalos Dex, the right thing to to is to CLEARLY COMMUNICATE that to the players and also possibly add by what means the Pokemon in this Dex are allowed to be obtained. This would clear up a lot of confusion and it’s not like people are dumb and cannot adapt. The poor-children-who-must-be-told-that-they-can’t-use-Grimer argument is also somewhat beaten out by now. Again I think a clear-cut communication by TPCi is the most important thing and I see that Evan Falco is with me on this.
Another observation I wanted to throw into the mix is how consequently the Kalos Dex is on keeping Legendaries out. We still have the three birds (2 of them 4x weak to rock) but that’s it. I swear it’s almost as if they looked at the past seasons and listened to your average Youtube commentator who often claims that players are “cheap for using Legendaries”! In fact, the past three metagames have been infested with those (2011 genies + Terrakion, 2012 Cresselia, Heatran, Thundurus, Latios, Zapdos etc, 2013 all of those + Landorus-T and Tornadus) and I can’t really remember a World class players who broke out of that concept. This here also kinda visualizes my point: http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/masters-vgc-worlds-2013-teams/ (Matteo and Ben Kilby are the only ones who are completely clean and then there are some world-class players such as Sejun or Randy who also only used one but still… the overwhelming majority used Legends).
I know for a fact that a lot of players are tired of seeing the same old crap and I can’t say that I can blame them for this. I can see that people might call me out on being very simple-minded but I’m actually with your average Youtube commentator on that: kick the legends. A big part of why 2011 was so ugly for a lot of people was because they kept the overpowered legendaries and I claim that a big part of the late 2013 feeling that the metagame is stale stemmed from the influence of legendaries as well. So if they recognized that and want to give players a chance to try out different stuff, it’s actually good for the game.
Also I wholeheartedly support Crow’s post. Couldn’t have said it any better, especially the last part of his post I liked a lot. Players need to step out of their comfort zones…
I disagree a lot with you, Crow.
It is definitely Game Freak and TPCi’s responsibility to provide us a medium to which to practice on. I don’t know why you used a sport as the reason why it’s not, then said Pokemon is not a sport, then said you don’t want to compare Pokemon to other video games that are played competitively. As a mid-level player who isn’t in any sort of hardcore testing circle, I very much appreciate the in-game ladder. Not to mention you seem to be okay with ignoring the large group of players who are somewhat casual even though as you admit, the tournament scene is a lot smaller than it should be. Why are more barriers to entry okay? The people who might find out about tournaments through Holocaster are exactly who I’m worried about. Why dismiss them? They’re essential to the growth of the tournament scene.
Frequent ruleset changes like this are not healthy. If a player gets complacent, they get complacent. I don’t see why the ruleset needs to be completely changed to “shake things up” for players who are too lazy to get better. The best players use the state of the metagame to innovate. There are ways to introduce new gameplay elements into a format without making the format seem like a gimmick.
Your post reads as though these tournaments should cater 100% to the hardcore player at the expense of everyone else. That is a poor way to grow the game.
Im not really for or against kalos dex but one area i do have concern with in kalos dex is that it doesnt seem to be too balanced imo
Just to give one quick example, we have kingdra again but there is no excadrill
I’d say it’s a bit early to make a statement on balance. It’s a brand new game. Similarly, it’s sort of crazy to say “We need a shakeup!!!” as if the new type, new Pokemon, new moves, new abilities, new items, and all the power changes mean absolutely nothing and the only thing that can shake up a metagame is randomly banning a bunch of Pokemon that used to be good in a different generation.
Rushan, I’m of the opinion that if the system is competitive then the players will follow. I understand my opinions are unpopular. But look at something like League of Legends. As a casual player of it, I know that the game caters 100% to competitive players. And it’s HUGELY popular. Does it deter me from playing the game? No. People who want to play will play regardless. Focus on competitive play does not deter anyone who wants to play semi-competitively or casually.
Does Riot ban certain Champions for a season at a time? I don’t mean the ban for the match system. I’m asking if Riot goes “We’re gonna shake things up and you can only use Champions that start with the letters S-Z for the LCS this year!”
Would people play in it? Probably if they really, really like League of Legends. I don’t see how it’s a positive though.
Also, I don’t think focus on competitive play deters players from joining competitive play. I think increasing the barriers to entry and creating convoluted rulesets makes it less likely someone will join competitive play though. Why play something that seems unappealing? This ruleset would be unappealing to just about anybody who looks at it for the first time. We had to put up with people who didn’t want to play in the official tournaments because they were “5th gen only” well into 2012. I remember a local tournament in 2013 where someone was making the rules 5th gen only because they thought that’s what official rules were.
I actually dont mind the ruleset
ps: Please don’t rage D:
I can deal with Kalos only as I think they would change the ‘special rules’ on Battle Spot to match it (or at least, they should). It definitely will be confusing for some newer players (and younger ones), but adding a note to each document they publish detailing either every Pokémon that is allowed, or every Pokémon that is not allowed would go a long way to solving a lot of problems.
I think the next real issue is Egg Moves. With Friend Safari, you can get things like Mach Punch Conkeldurr, which is in the Kalos ‘Dex, but the Pokémon to breed it with is not. I’m sure there would be plenty more of these cases already and it’d become a silly amount once Bank is released. Would we have to play without these Egg Moves? Is there a way TPCi can control banning select Egg Moves on usable gained from banned Pokémon? What about Move Tutor Moves from previous Generations? That would be the difference in people using Zapdos or not, for example.
They’d probably have to allow all of these things for the rule-set to work, but it does give an advantage to people with RNG’d Pokémon. So the idea of a fresh start (which is potentially a reason for this rule-set being an option) is pretty much not the case.
I can deal with Kalos only as I think they would change the ‘special rules’ on Battle Spot to match it (or at least, they should). It definitely will be confusing for some newer players (and younger ones), but adding a note to each document they publish detailing either every Pokémon that is allowed, or every Pokémon that is not allowed would go a long way to solving a lot of problems.
I think the next real issue is Egg Moves. With Friend Safari, you can get things like Mach Punch Conkeldurr, which is in the Kalos ‘Dex, but the Pokémon to breed it with is not. I’m sure there would be plenty more of these cases already and it’d become a silly amount once Bank is released. Would we have to play without these Egg Moves? Is there a way TPCi can control banning select Egg Moves on usable gained from banned Pokémon? What about Move Tutor Moves from previous Generations? That would be the difference in people using Zapdos or not, for example.
They’d probably have to allow all of these things for the rule-set to work, but it does give an advantage to people with RNG’d Pokémon. So the idea of a fresh start (which is potentially a reason for this rule-set being an option) is pretty much not the case.
Grotle <3
I think this isn’t really an issue. 2011 was home to Heat Wave Chandelure, and the original way of getting that was a Pokemon XD Slugma or Magcargo parent I believe.
Anyways, I’m not going to rile myself up over these rumors too much. As feathers pointed out, no official document has been released yet. Heck, I get the feeling that the ruleset isn’t even finalized internally at TPCi yet. The other thing you have to consider is that AlphaZealot reads these boards frequently because he cares about what we think as players. This thread would be particularly useful to him as it’s not just centered around what we (Nugget Bridge) would think, but the playerbase as a whole. If you’ve got a well reasoned opinion on this, I suggest letting it be known. Personally, I adopt Scott and makiri’s arguments as my own.
In terms of metagame speculation, I’m a little sad at a few of the omissions. Obviously I’m glad to see Thundurus would be gone, but my stance has softened on Cresselia. There are a lot of Pokemon that turn Cresselia into deadweight, but Cresselia did provide the most stable Trick Room option. I’d feel a bit better if we had a better TR replacement than Aromatisse or Reuniclus off the top of my head. Also sad that Metagross and Jellicent could both get the axe. Metagross was kind of unhealthy in 2012, but I thought it became a bit more realistic as the metagame got more offensive around it (Landorus, Thundurus), thereby moving it from godtier to “pretty freaking awesome” tier. Jellicent was never outrageous, and it’s the death of another TR option if it goes. Should the Kalos dex be adopted as our ruleset, I’ll get over their absences fairly quickly, but those are my kneejerk reactions for the moment.
Regardless, I’ll be breeding Kalos mons like a madman
I think a lot of people are neglecting the business-side of the argument for a Kalos-exclusive VGC. Especially this early in the generation, TCPi wants to promote its newest “products” (the Gen VI Pokemon and Mega-Evolutions). At one of the largest displays of the Pokemon video games every year (the VGC), TPCi probably wants to make sure these new toys are included in the teams of finalists (whose matches will be displayed at these events, the Pokemon YouTube channel, and several video game blogs), even if they have to force players to do so.
Does this attitude promote the competitive VG community of Pokemon? Not in the least bit, but I am not entirely convinced TPCi cares. (Please correct me if I am wrong about any opinion in this next paragraph, because I know lots of more experienced and older players have had much closer contact with officials who run these tournaments). Unlike the TCG, whose sale of products relies much more heavily on the existence of a large, competitive scene, the Pokemon video games will sell regardless of what Game Freak does (XY have already sold 3+ million copies). Doesn’t this create a kind of cyclical effect, where because there isn’t a large playerbase, the VGC doesn’t grow and become more serious, and because the VGC isn’t large and more serious, the playerbase isn’t large? Probably, but that doesn’t address the issue that the VGC does not have a strong correlation to sales as an impetus to overlook the the inherent loss of hosting such large events all over the world. (Then again, one could use that logic to say why have the VGCs at all, and my only defense would be that TCPi is throwing a bone at the playerbase since the VGC can be seen as a really large side-event to Regional/National TCG tournaments, which would happen regardless).
Of course neglecting the VGC is a huge missed opportunity for the TCPi, and limiting the pool of available Pokemon hurts competition (eliminating “top threats” does not make the game more competitive, because the metagame will always revolve around a small pool of Pokemon).
STEELIX SURVIVES EVERYTHING. EVEN RULESET CHANGES. STEELIX FOR SUPERIOR GROUND TYPE. WHERE’S YOUR EXCADRILL NOW?
Anyways, I remember AlphaZealot saying in Ft. Wayne last weekend that he wants to keep Bo1 Swiss partially to be more reasonable schedule-wise to the mid to lower tier players who might not want to stick around all day for Bo3 Swiss. Using the same logic, I’m not sure how adopting a Kalos-dex only ruleset–which has a convoluted ban-list complicated further by the Friend Safari and Pokemon Bank–makes it any easier for them to play. Sure, this is competition and only the best players should be winning, but putting up complex barriers to discourage people from even competing in the first place is pretty detrimental to growing the game. Newsflash: our competitive scene is puny. Until we have a larger scene, TPCi should stay away from doing anything unpopular that won’t grow the game.
I agree with Scott and plaid’s camp as far as potential rulesets go. A consistent ruleset is what’s best for growing the game, and using the GBU ruleset of VGC 2012-2013 is pretty easy to explain to every player regardless of experience. I’m honestly sick of people blisseying about the supposedly stale metagame we had at the end of 5th gen. The metagame is only as stale as you make it. If you want to make it cool, stop complaining and make it cool.
Using the same Pokemon and team can only last a player so long, even using the same ruleset. The metagame will always shift to completely counter it in a matter of time. Just ask Cybertron’s 2012 team. Like you said, to be a good player, you have to be flexible. If anything, better players will be the ones who are flexible even in a consistent GBU format.
As for Thundurus and Cresselia, my opinion’s the same as SoulSurvivor–in Pokemon, whenever a high-level threat is removed, another one rises up…then people complain about that using arguments such as “it’s broken” to justify why they lost and not become better players as a result. Call me crazy, but while I thought Thundurus and Cresselia were good Pokemon, I didn’t think they were broken. The former was easy enough to swat aside if you used a Ground type or just baited Taunts and stuff; the latter could be easily walled while dealing with its partners.
So let me understand this, to cater towards the not super competitive pokemon crowd, we limit the pokemon selection to what you can catch in game. Then, we make the list of banned pokemon so hard to interpret, you need to be a super competitive pokemon player to make sense of it.
The only pokemon that would be hard to obtain for people who only own X and Y are old game legendaries. Why not just only ban those to level the playing field for new players?
The idiocy of having a random ban list is frustrating. If next regionals are kalos dex only TPCI really doesn’t understand VGC at all.
That would matter if Pokemon Bank was only valuable to competitive players, but it isn’t.
A Kalos-dex ruleset would not be any more complicated than 2011’s ruleset. If you check the 2011 VGC’s official regulations (External), you will notice that under the “Pokemon Restrictions” tab, the very first sentence reads:
“Players may use Pokémon found in the Pokémon Black Version or Pokémon White Version Unova Pokédex, from No. 001-148, and No. 151, that are caught in the game, or received by an official event or distribution. Pokémon from the Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, or Sinnoh Pokédex cannot be used.”
Notice how the langauge says found in the Pokedex, and available through official events or distribution. You could very easily change this sentence to:
“Players may use Pokémon found in the Pokémon X Version or Pokémon Y Version Central, Coastal, or Mountain Pokédex, (exclusing Mewtwo, Xerneus, Yveltal, and Zygarde), that are caught in the game, or received by an official event, distribution, or Pokemon Bank.”
Even the 2011 version included “caught in the game”, allowing you to use Dream World and normal Pokemon. Likewise, “caught in the game” would include Friend Safari.
Then, if you go to the “Moves” tab. you see:
“Pokémon may only use moves that have been learned through one of the following methods:
It should be very clear from this language that so long as the move can be learned from Breeding, the move will be fine. So people should not fret that “oh no you can only breed this move using a non-Kalos dex Pokemon”, because like many people have said, Heat Wave Chandelure was allowed despite possible breeding-chain legality issues.
Whether a Kalos-dex based metagame would be worse is a matter of opinion (even though it seems to be the majority on this board that it would be), but I cannot imagine such a metagame being anywhere near as centralized as 2011 given not just how many Pokemon would be allowed but also how many of them are viable.
Isn’t the bulk of this discussion somewhat premature? No official ruleset has been released . . .
If we end up with a Kalos Pokedex, that’s fine with me–provided that doesn’t mean we’re unable to use “Kalos” Pokemon that have been captured/bred and transferred from prior generations. I realize the timeline for the Pokemon Bank isn’t going to provide much time for competitors to migrate competitive Pokemon from earlier games, but I’m not sure why theirs so much assumption that we’ll have to stick to capturing and breeding within X & Y when we’ve never seen such restrictions. Yes, we had the Unova-only year, but we were able to use egg moves that required prior-generation Pokemon; we couldn’t use migrated Pokemon for the competition that year because Unova was all new Pokemon–unlike Kalos. I’ll remain in a wait-and-see mode.
I’m glad there will be change regardless: even if every Pokemon is allowed, there’s still the new Kalos Pokemon and new X/Y mechanics. I won’t say that I ever thought the 2013 season was “stale” but it did bother me that there were never any wrinkles from Regional to Regional to Nationals to Worlds (not any after Winter 2013 anyway). Even small wrinkles like releasing a breedable Shadow-Tag Chandelure would’ve been nice between last year’s long stretch of relatively no change in the game. I suppose I like the TCG model where new cards series keep the game moving from event to event. That increases the strategy and gives an advantage to those who can scheme on their own. I suppose I tend to do better at the onsite of new toys. In the VGC, after a while, a large group figures things out and the hard Pokemon and move sets to get become more accessible. That’s certainly fine, but I like an element of hard individual work in the game (working through the Dream World to finally get a female Poliwag in the Fall of 2011, working to breed the perfect Aegislash now, etc.) as opposed to just making everything readily available to all. I know others feel differently about that. I personally like the challenge of capturing/breeding/move-tutoring and all the training that makes a Pokemon fully yours.
If I had my way, I think I’d want to change things up before every Regional. Kalos-only in the Winter. Anything obtainable in X/Y in the Spring. The National Pokedex for Nationals. Something like that. I’m happy sticking with the Doubles format, though! It’d be interesting to slip some singles into the official Wi-Fi tourneys (ones that count–not just the extra ones), but the main changes I’m interesting in seeing between events revolve around adding additional Pokemon options that are capable of changing the metagame a bit.
Are we really trying to use League of Legends, a game where champions such as Teemo, Garen, and Darius are routinely nerfed in spite of being basically useless in competitve play because they were too strong at low levels where players were too stupid not to facecheck brushes? League also does have ladders for everything resembling competitive play including ranked 5s, which is exactly the same format as competitive play, and solo queue, which really doesn’t resemble competitive play at all, but lets you queue for the same format individually. Even when League was a smaller game, it never followed anything close to what Crow is prescribing because that strategy is terrible and it wouldn’t be the game it is today if it had. Do you even believe what you wrote there or are you just trying to bs an argument that makea a new ruleset sound like a good idea because you’ve been sick of VGC 2013 since halfway through VGC 2012?
Other thoughts: I wouldn’t expect the special battles ladder to be the solution here since it’s supposed to be a ruleset that changes with every battle spot season. The first season ends around whe Pokebank comes out and I’m sure they’ll all be similar lengths, so not really a seaosn long solution.
Also on the thought of things being stale and the metagame not shifting: has anyone who posted in this thread other than SoulSur, drug duck, and I actually played more than about 10 wi-fi matches on XY? People have pretty strong opinions about a format they’ve never played.
No Excadrill? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
I’d also like to point out for everyone who said “I’ll be fine with Kalos Dex. The change won’t affect me.” Of course you’re fine. You’re on this website which means you’re in touch with all of the latest developments and have the resources to practice even if it isn’t in game. No matter what, we, the competitive community, will be able to adapt and continue to succeed.
The problems come from people who aren’t online. And especially for younger players. Last year’s Philly regional I had to explain to a new senior playing in his first tournament why he couldn’t use Keldeo. We’ve seen time and time again that TPCi focuses on Seniors and Juniors as growth opportunities. Why they would make things more difficult for them is beyond me.
Also to touch on the marketing thing, one of the most encouraging answers I got from AZ in my discussions with him was that he was interested in growing the game on his own terms which emphasized the competitive nature of the game over marketing gimmicks. I would be disappointed to see us regress back to a wing of Pokemon’s marketing department.
As someone somewhat new to VGC with X and Y, I find it frustrating. I’ve been playing competitvely, mostly singles, since early DP, and I’ve been following VGC off and on since HGSS, though never really taking the time to learn the metagame in-depth. I say off and on because the change in rules year to year makes it really difficult for me to try and learn a new metagame, especially when I know that half of what I’m going to learn is just going to change next year.
The only reasons I’m willing to give it another try are 1) Pokemon new to X and Y that I really like who seem to be more suited for VGC play than singles, and 2) finding this site.
By this logic, wouldn’t they also want to promote the Pokemon Bank?
Ban lists should be easy to remember. For example, you can remember the GBU ban list by going, “Okay, no event legendaries or big legendaries. Got it!”
Remembering the Kalos Dex is really, really hard and just isn’t practical. I mean seriously, the only way to have the list on you ingame is to see all the Kalos Dex mons first. The list is just too hard to remember to be a good list.
It’s just occurred to me that my Facebook was open in your browser xD
I personally think the 2013 metagame is anything but stale (a seel went 5-0 at the hardest regional) but you have to look at this from an accomodationalist point of view, does anyone really want to have only 3 weeks before a regional to play the meta? Would it be better to have every pokemon usable if we could get pokemon from older gens before December? Absolutely. Unfortunately this isnt what we’re dealing with, and I would sure as hell prefer this to a meta consisting of 66 pokemon.
As opposed to having 0 weeks to play the meta because there’s no place to ladder against people playing the same rules? You’re using a simulator at least until bank either way.
Pretty much every good pro-Kalos Dex argument (or anti-contra argument) has been mentioned by Crow which is why I won´t bother saying too much that heads into the same direction. I doubt that I can do it better.^^
I for myself support the possibly new format because it will make teambuilding and playing more interesting again since the ban of most old favorites + the changes brought with X/Y will give way to an entirely new metagame other than an updated VGC´13 which would most likely feature a lot of the old stars again. While I never really despised the old format or considered it stale, I don´t mind having a fresh wind in the game because it breaks old teambuilding patterns and the old roster of popular Pokemon. This opens up a way for new Pokemon to shine and new ways around those. Since finding these ways is what I enjoy most about this game, I can only welcome this possible change in the format.^^
One thing I really find sad, though is how some people seem to deem a huge part of the world unable to just check on the list of allowed Pokemon online by using the “it-confuses-people-if-you-can-catch-it-in-the-game-but-can´t-use-it-in-the-tournament”-argument against a new format. If I may remind you: B/W also featured many National Dex Pokemon in the post-game that were not in the Unova Dex and yet, people still managed not to bring a Tyranitar to a VGC´11-event (And if you were that guy, you should´ve probably tried reading the rules beforehand).^^ Sure, one might argue that the ruleset was easier to remember since it was basically “every new Pokemon minus Kyurem and cover legendaries” but you can´t tell me that it will be hard to figure for people out which Pokemon will be allowed and which aren´t just because the Kalos Dex doesn´t feature Kalos Pokemon only.
If you really can´t memorize the list for the life of it (which is completly understandable), just have a list of the Kalos Dex open while teambuilding for quick reference. You can go further and just cross out irrelevant Pokemon (as in, not-fully-evolved stuff like Bulbasaur and Caterpie, excluding Pokemon that could be viable with Eviolite) to make things more organized. Heck, there are even sites like veekun who let you search for Pokemon that are present in specific dexes which doesn´t even require you to remember anything at all since the site does all that work for you and filters out impossible options.
And if all else fails, TPCi can just implement the rules in the GBU and make it obvious that this will be the format for the VGC (something like “Official VGC 2014 format” as a name for it). By then, even the laziest or slowest person on the world should understand which Pokemon aren´t allowed.
i read the newest posts in this thread lying in bed and got up to come talk about this basically
when i go to events i usually end up talking to a lot of the parents of either juniors or some seniors. its easy to get into a discussion with them because they mostly have nothing better to do during registration anyway. i would say probably 80% of non-competitive pokeparents who have non-competitive children don’t even know there are rules posted online. how could they? a lot of them don’t even know what the game is about, just that their kids want to play it and that they can come hang out for a few hours to play with other kids. they don’t know the scope of the competitive circuit, they don’t know their kids could win a trip to beautiful indianapolis, they don’t even know that world finals even exists. when i was at the now dissolved BC regional earlier this year, i ran into two different parents who had no idea world finals was even going to be in vancouver, they just saw an ad for the tournament along with a location and a date, and they showed up. there is a reason myself and a few others bring extra pokemon to regionals – so we can save the juniors (and sometimes even seniors) who didn’t even know anything was banned to begin with. if you’ve ever sat and watched the juniors registration line you would understand what i’m talking about 100%.
i read earlier that someone said the younger player approach has been done to death in this thread already but it really hasn’t and it never will be. the younger players are the future of the game, for both casual and competitive players. kids have to stay engaged and their parents have to care enough to be willing to work with their children and actually take them to events.
we as a competitive community are 100% aware of former rulesets, we understand the concept of a pokemon ban list and why certain pokemon do sometimes need to be banned depending on format. we can log onto nuggetbridge every day and all of the information we need is right here, we don’t even need to set foot on the pokemon website (where it becomes difficult to find things sometimes. remember that parents are the ones looking here for their kids!). we have the ability to discuss strategy and viable pokemon with each other, we understand how breeding and egg moves work and we are good at working with only a handful of usable pokemon. the casual crowd might be none of these things and they make up a huge chunk of attendance at every event. i absolutely don’t see any reason why we need to complicate the format (and yes, it is more complicated than 2011, and if you need me to tell you why then i will) or take away the valuable in-game practice. i don’t care how many people on nuggetbridge are fine with using a simulator, what matters is the crowd that doesn’t even know simulators exist. we need to make what we have is available to all players no matter how good or bad, young or old they may be. we need an outlet for them to be able to practice and get better if we want to grow the game and we need to make the rules at least somewhat easy to understand. kids are definitely going to ask why they can’t use normal pokemon they caught in-game, and they shouldn’t have to be asking that. it shouldn’t be confusing for them to put a team together. got a fancy pokemon in wonder trade? sorry, its from someone else’s friend safari and you can’t use that because its not in the kalos pokedex. i can probably count on one hand how many kids actually use/open the pokedex for anything. yes it is easy for YOU as competitive familiars to log on a work with a list of banned pokemon, but its not that easy for players who have no concept of what a ban list even is. they aren’t going to go looking for it if they don’t know its there, and most parents don’t even read/know there are rules anyway.
i understand that molding the format into a competitive friendly style is important, but we really aren’t going to attract any new players into our fold if this is going to happen. i totally understand that some players aren’t concerned about that, and as a player you don’t really need to be, but its still important to think about and its important for this thread (which is here for suggestions and opinions that we want to express before the rules can be finalized. stop dismissing this thread, we could make some real progress here). i think it would be interesting if some of the people who have no problem with this format went around and actually spoke with parents or guardians who have to do all the work to get their kids to these events. i make a point of speaking with competitive friendly parents because i want to be informative and i want to promote the community, and they have some interesting things to say.
we can most likely adapt to any format whether we like it or not, even if it is unhealthy for the game. but the casual crowd is always going to have some difficulty, and they need to stay interested or eventually we’re never going to see new faces picking up acrylic bricks at the end of the day. there is a reason the top 16 finishers usually all have familiar names. we need new players to be interested and we need the format to let them in.
Exactly. I think this is really the complaint when talking about Kalos only as an arbitrary ban. A Kalos Dex only would seem fine, the idea of being limited to the local region Dex isn’t all that arbitrary in theory, but in practice the construction of the list itself just feels arbitrary. It’s just such a hodgepodge of new and old pokemon… so I can basically use all new, non legendary mons and oh, yeah a handful of old favorites that were thrown in, too, because there’s 700 pokemon already and it’s getting pretty tough to come up with new ideas. Oh, and splitting the dex into 3 subsets probably doesn’t help, either. 2011’s Unova only Dex was definitely more straight forward when it came to grasping what the limitations were… The complaint about a Kalos only format not included for playability on GBU ties into this as well. At least if players could try to play a rated battle and get a feel for the ban list (oh, what do you mean I can’t bring Togekiss?) it would help out the understanding and provide some familiarity.
Others have said this already but if you’re in favor of Kalos only because it will be “fresh” then I think you’re forgetting about the fact that there are some pretty significant differences from Gen 5 to Gen 6, chief among them a new type chart. The game is like 3 weeks old, what’s not fresh about that?